It’s been an interesting few weeks.

I’ve began posting a series of articles to Christian Soul Food – mostly derived from the series on Romans 9 that John Piper preached in late 2002 into early 2003.

In my time away from HCR, I’ve had a LOT of time to sit back, relax and reflect on how many of these ‘discussions’ on Calvinism are handled across the internet and how both some non-Calvinists AND some Calvinists are doing nothing more than indulging their flesh in these discussions while claiming to seek truth.

I’ve seen more than a few non-Calvinists (especially on HCR, but not exclusively) recoil at the plain reading of Romans 9 and try to run away from it with mocking (that makes God nothing more than a cosmic puppet master), insulting (even veiled insults) the people who hold those views, and (the current soup d’jour) claiming ‘Holy Spirit revelation’ about what the text means versus what the text actually says and means simply to get around hearing something they don’t like.

I continue to heavily ponder whether or not the charismatic and pentecostal movements and their emphasis on feeling, experience and signs and wonders have been the greatest contributor to division in the church, since feelings and experiences are extremely subjective and have no basis for legitimate testing other than ‘God told me’.

Now, I’m supposed to believe, for example, that so-called ‘Five-fold’ ministry is a legitimate practice (as it is carried out in charismatic circles). It is based off of Ephesians 4:11, for those unfamiliar with it. Prophets, pastors, apostles, evangelists and teachers.

The teaching has its’ origin in some of the early pentecostal and charismatic movements of the 1900’s.

Here’s the problem: there aren’t FIVE offices/gifts in this passage at all. There are FOUR.

http://hcr.fm/forum/showthread.php?t=13096&highlight=five-fold

Yet, there’s plenty of folks – even now – running around saying that God gave them a vision to produce a five-fold ministry somewhere (in a neighborhood).

I’m sorry, but the same Holy Spirit who wrote the text of scripture did not tell you any such thing. You are following the delusions and imaginations of your mind and emotions.

I know it’s very difficult and can be very frustrating to deal with people who make their experiences and feelings the final determiner of truth and not the scriptures. Sure, people pay lip-service to the scriptures as final authority, but in the end, it’s about whatever vision or prophecy or revelation they claim to receive from God which tells them what the passage should mean – not sound exegesis (as if the Holy Spirit didn’t intend for words to have absolute and definite meaning and we can pour any meaning into them we please).

I also know that my interactions with said people are no accident, but that God is working on me in this particular area so that when I write, I will be able to deal with this phenomena. In preparing to write further on the plague that the prosperity/Word of Faith gospel has been to the church, I need to further understand the subjective hermeneutical approach that these folk bring to scripture that cause them to arrive at the conclusions that they do.

In this way, I believe a lot of people are simply following the dictates and desires of their hearts and ignoring major portions of scripture in favor of some supposed ‘revelation knowledge’ they’ve gotten.

How in the world do we get past this ?

Well, one major thing is that we, those holding to reformed theology, simply need to be patient. Younger reformed folk can be VERY impatient with those who hold to charis-pentecostalish approaches to scripture. In our zeal to defend the God of the scriptures, we can come across as very unloving (in the sense of showing genuine concern for the soul and spiritual well-being of the individual versus simply ‘being right’ hidden under the guise of defending the God of the scriptures), very brash and sometimes unnecessarily harsh. Sarcasm that gets a good laugh from some of the people we’re used to talking with…doesn’t seem to work as well and is often taken as veiled insults, personal attacks on the intelligence of a person, etc…

In a recent convo, for example, I pointed out to Pastor Ken that many of his comments regarding Calvinism were made out of ignorance and were uninformed. My comments were taken as veiled insults and that all I was out to do was prove that ‘I’m right and everyone else is wrong’. I pointed out (by the way, the whole thread is here – and it’s ongoing – http://www.the5thquarter.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32819 ). As you can see, he’s spent most of the time dealing with….nothing I posted except what he doesn’t like.

In fact, as I’m typing this very entry, I’ve found myself having to chill out on responding further to him, as he still has some serious growth to do in the area of his handling of disagreements. I can say that I’ve made every effort to not insult him – even in a ‘hidden’ insult. It’s been difficult as our flesh’s first instinct is to defend self. But I also realize that this is the normal reaction folks have to reformed theology.

Scripture gets posted, people ignore it and attack you. Typical.

There’s also (as shown with Amika in one of the early sets of comments a few dozen posts ago) a huge amount of emotion mixed with grasping at straws – and very little, if any exegesis. A lot of words designed to argue at the emotions and avoid the implications of scripture.

I’m learning to deal with people on the internet a bit better. I also know that Ken wouldn’t say half of the stuff he posts on the internet if we were in person and he’d be more in ‘discussion mode’ than argue and insult mode. He can be hot-tempered, but he also knows how to chill out a little – at least in person.

But Ken is a perfect example of the amount of patience – GREAT PATIENCE – God calls for folk to have when dealing with someone with a wrong viewpoint.

This is where some of us reformed folk forget how difficult it was for us to accept the doctrines of grace, much less most of the stuff that comes after it (covenant theology, infant baptism, sacramentalism, etc….). A dying to self, a dying to pride, a dying to ‘rights’, a dying to America’s unbalanced view of God as an overly emotional grandfather/bellhop who wouldn’t hurt a fly – well, if you’ve been inundated with all of these all your life, how else do you expect a person to react when he’s pulled from being the center of the universe and God is put back there ?

There is a true, holy and righteous zeal that develops in the heart of a true believer to defend the character and name of God. It is no more so present than in the heart of those who hold the doctrines of grace or the five solas. Hence, Luther could write vociferously against the Rome, Calvin could do the same and yet both men knew how to also write very humbly and patiently with those who were obviously brethren, but had not yet come to a knowledge of the great truths rediscovered at the reformation.

Spurgeon could write of John Wesley that although he despised some of the things the man taught, if there were any possibility of adding two additional apostles, he would recommend George Whitefield and John Wesley. He goes on to speak of the many good and godly qualities Wesley exhibited during his life and states that a many good men who are truly brethren and sistren in Christ who do not yet see fuller Biblical truth in regard to the doctrines of grace.

Can we all get to the point where we can handle the non-reformed in this fashion ?

Non-reformed folk make it difficult sometimes. Even looking at my thread with Ken (which I’ve answered 3-4 times since starting this blogpost), he’s making it really difficult for me not to blast him with every bit of ‘ammo’ I have (and it wouldn’t be hard to do, either). But how God-honoring would that be ?

How would it look to non-Christians reading the thread ?

So I keep the focus where it needs to be and keep pressing the issues home to him.

It takes a LOT of humility to die to self and self’s wishes to be self-justified.

It takes a LOT of humility to be humble and not blast folk even when they are wrong.

It takes a LOT of prayer and humility to temper your response as to be firm, but not too harsh.

I gotta admit though – he’s working my nerves right now.

I guess it’s also a Christian maturity issue. Part of good discipleship has to do with being taught how to conduct oneself as a believer ought to, and this is where more than a few ‘internet Calvinists’ fall short. Too many of the reformed are too quick to resort to ‘blast’ mode when what’s needed and required is ‘humility’ mode, even when we’re right.

Humility – that wonderful aspect of giving up ones’ rights even when one is right and entitled to respond in a certain fashion…. it’s an interesting path to walk down.

We can correct without blasting folks. We can correct with patience, knowing, in many cases, we too once fought against Biblical truth just as harshly.

—–