Quiet Storm over on HCR started up an EXCELLENT discussion on the new board about being teachable.

He writes:

I want to build on the topic of what it means to be teachable. I have seen several cats on both the build board and theology board tell other cats that they need to learn how to be “teachable”. However from my expereince on this forum I have not seen to many cats who are “teachable” themselves. Now some of you might “amen” me and say that you are trying to teach other cats how to be “teachable” but on this forum are you “teachable”? When it comes to particular doctrines many cats on here are pretty much sealed into their doctrinal convictions so in light of that how is one to be “teachable” in a debate concerning those doctrines. I am also guilty of not being “teachable” cause for example most know my feelings about Jonathon Edwards so in regards to that I do not see myself as being that “teachable”. I have studied up on the man and feel that there really is not any new information that can be presented to me that I have not already seen. Now that was just a personal example but for the more “learned” cats on HCR do you see youself as being “teachable” and open to learn from others even if doctrinally you disagree….or do you see yourself pretty set in your doctrinal convictions to the point you only see yourself as a teacher. Keep in mind that I am only speaking in context of this forum so please dont say “well yes whenever I hear pastor so and so he teaches me something all the time”. Lets Build!!!!!!!!!

I answered:

There are certain things I’m firm on and it will take a lot of Biblical evidence to convince me otherwise.

I am open to learning what others believe and the basis for it. I don’t believe in speaking out without knowing what I’m talking about. Sometimes I have a habit of transferring that same expectation to others and it comes out wrong (I’ve said “i already know your arguments” before, for example). I’m open to re-examining what I believe in light of whatever someone brings up to me – there’s always a chance I’m wrong. The thing I’ve found is that usually the people I’m in dialogue with (most of the time) aren’t thinking the same way (and not just because they don’t agree with me all of a sudden), but moreso ‘I’m trying to teach him (me) something’…….

I’ve learned to be a lot more cautious on passing judgement on men and women in church history. I try to keep in mind that they were saints living with the same life-contradictions of Romans 6-7 as I, and that some of them would likely look up TV watching, the internet and other things we do for ‘entertainment’ as being just as ungodly we view slave owning, or the execution of heretics. There’s always more to the story.

QS said he was encouraged by what I wrote and had a follow-up question for me:

Is that the approach you feel that we ALL should take in our various theological discussions if so do you believe that can happen if one side is constantly telling the other side they need to be more “teachable”? Somewhere along the line I believe people feel that others are not “open to re-examining their beliefs” which is why a number of people shun theological discussions cause they feel others are not trying to learn from them. To get more personal do you believe that you communicate the message that your “open to re-examining what you believe because there is a chance you might be wrong” in your various theological debates?

I responded:

Not with ALL. As you grow in Biblical skill and knowledge of the faith, your handling of the word of God and such, your convictions get a bit more settled and you become a bit more ‘closed minded’ to certain things.

A large part of where you end up on a particular issue depends on where you start off being taught. Humans adapt to whatever they’re being fed and become shaped by it. There’s also the emotive factor: anything that seeks to focus more on the emotions than the intellect will have a deeper impact and guide the affections. If the ‘brand’ of Christianity you’ve been given has been more emotion and experience based, you’re less open to listening to logical arguments and sound Biblical exegesis. That’s why some folks who’ve followed Copeland, Dollar, etc…. for years immediately shut their minds to listening to anything – you’re not speaking to their emotions and affections with greek words (the common terminology is ‘what you’re speaking isn’t SPIRIT…. that’s MAN’S KNOWLEDGE and FLESH’).

Garbage in, garbage out.

God can break a person of that, though. There are several of ‘us’ (Calvinists) on the board including Redeemed who spent the greater part of their lives in that type of atmosphere (he’s logged about 20 years or so in a pentecostal church, for example).

So coming into a discussion, most people who’ve been taught to esteem their emotions and experiences higher than stuff taught by ‘saints from yesterday’ (scripture and writings of good theologians throughout history) are going to have a very difficult time understanding. Notice: I didn’t say AGREEING. I said understanding. And that’s simply because, despite all of the lip service to ‘I believe the Bible is the Word of God’, some people believe that the Bible is a Word of God in their daily practice. They are also waiting for some experience, some happening, some still small voice, some ‘revelation knowledge’ to come to them and that’s given the same authority as scripture.

So coming into the discussion many times, we’re not on equal footing with the Bible being the final, infallible authority on all matters of faith and practice. Some saints (and yes, they are saints, albeit misguided and mistaught) think because you’re not speaking ‘spirit’ and you’re only concerned about reading some greek text and what the Bible says and you’re not conveying any emotion in the words you say, that you’re not ‘teachable’. And some of these same people will be closed to listening to you simply because you’re not speaking ‘Spirit’ (not speaking words which touch the emotions, emphasize the experience and such…which most theological discussions don’t do on a surface level).

On the flip side, you’ll have the person who has been brought up to put more thought into their Christian faith. They’ve been taught to hold scripture – not their emotions and experience – as the final infallible written authority and the primary way that God speaks. So they spend time there. You hear it in their tone because sometimes they sound like old men who’ve weathered a storm. Or ten. You hear them speak with conviction – God said it, that settles it (whether you believe it or not). They know what they believe….because that’s what the text teaches. You hear them speak in absolutes – it’s all black and white to them, because words actually have OBJECTIVE meaning and can be understood. They believe that the Spirit of God gives a believer a sober mind – so instead of looking to fall out like a drunken idiot, they believe the Spirit leads them to deeper insights into the scriptures. That’s why the books they read are thicker than their counterparts in the previous verses – they have come to realize through the careful, systematic study of God’s word, that this God we worship – this salvation we possess – there’s MUCH more to it than people think. And a LOT of it is revealed in that very Word that so many people only treat like an operating manual for a VCR/DVD player. So we (yeah, I’m in this group) spend time talking and fellowshiping with people of precious like faith, studying, and really seriously BUILDING – Nate (Brokendaily), Q-DOG and I had a GREAT convo a few weeks back at an event we were all at and it was MARVELOUS (it was on concerns about infant baptism and whether or not it was/is biblical). Building each other up in the faith by sharing insights into the Word of God we’ve discovered over time, sharing concerns and much more. Our souls bow in awe at the God who has revealed Himself in the scriptures, and since we love Him, we seek to hear His voice daily. Was there something we missed in that verse ? Let’s go back over it again. Oh wait…. His sheep ? Oh wow. This changes everything. Pastor skipped past this. How did he miss it ? It’s right there plain as day…. and moments like that happen daily as the Spirit of God illuminates the mind of the believer to understand more truth. And we know the only way that we’re going to grow is to get the same attitude toward scripture and taking it in that the writer of Psalm 119 has. And when we come across folk who don’t take it seriously, we want to (in love) take them and shake them and say &quotO YOU NOT REALIZE THE TREASURE IN YOUR HANDS ???? AND YOU’RE JUST QUOTING IT AS A QUICK PROOF TEXT OR SOME DAILY "CONFESSION" THAT REALLY DOESN’T EXIST ?"

So there you have it. Two folks unteachable for two different reasons. I can’t say they should both approach each other with the thought of ‘well, I could be wrong’ on every issue – simply because there are some things the group 2 guys have down that the group 1 guys miss because they haven’t put in the necessary leg-work to understand more of what the scriptures teach.

Be intolerant. Because some things are just stupid.

Now both sides can be pretty arrogant – group 1 because his experience makes him think he’s more spiritual and everyone who isn’t speaking the same language (especially those ‘scripture quoters’) must be at the beginning stages of their walk and not ready to really LIVE….. and group 2 because knowledge CAN (not always) make folk real proud. I’ve seen examples of both on this board – frequently (and more from the group 1 folk than group 2, shockingly….).

My approach, I think, puts some more objectivity behind the issue. If both sides are saying that the scripture is their final authority, let the discussion be focused on exegeting the text and the approach to exegeting the text. Not ‘my experience’, not ‘the Holy Spirit told me’…. but what does the text say ? What does the text MEAN ? (in context)

that, and also seek to understand what others believe before you open your mouth to criticize it. Far too many folk, for example, open their mouth against Calvinism with only a HALF-surface understanding of it. If you can’t restate to someone what they believe to the point where they are satisfied that you’ve ‘got it’, then you need to keep your mouth shut about it. That shows both humility and respect, and there’s far too much of that missing on this board – even among the so-called ‘spirit-filled’.

To the last question he asked:

To get more personal do you believe that you communicate the message that your “open to re-examining what you believe because there is a chance you might be wrong” in your various theological debates?

I said:

Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I ain’t open. For example – discussion on the Trinity – I’m not open to re-examining. It’s right. Spent too much time on it and realize the logical implications of not believing it – both for trying to account for things in reality like “love” and “fellowship” as well as practical relationship things (husbands and wives in marriage and how they should operate and just a few common sense deductions (i.e.- Isaiah 44 – God compares himself to idols and ‘gods’ that do not exist, 2 John 7-11, 1 John 4 and 2 Cor. 11 all say to be on the lookout for ‘other Jesuses’ that aren’t the biblical Jesus…..)…. so naw. I ain’t budgin’. And yeah, you ARE blind if you don’t see it. And I’ll be praying that God opens your eyes. Get under some CONSISTENT sound doctrinal teaching so you can grow right.

Hope this helps, em. I know I stepped on a few toes.

Maybe I’m getting old and onery. My birthday IS in a few days……

What say ye, O readers of the blog ?

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